Grundig Motor Tuning for type 5040W-3D

ID: 25496
This article refers to the model: 5040W/3D (Grundig (Radio-Vertrieb, RVF, Radiowerke))

Grundig Motor Tuning for type 5040W-3D 
15.Jul.04 00:41
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Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22 (USA)
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Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22

Herr Knoll,
I have recently bought the model 5040W3D from ebaY seller in the US. I have copied the 4 sheets of Technical Information you referred to in your forum post. Do you, or any other radiomuseum member know if the information was translated into English. I believe I have seen a reference for an export model as Grundig 5040W/3D "Ausfuhrung B" . . .

I am beginning the complete restoration of this impressive model, and would be most appreciative of any technical hints. I have performed some service (in 1976-1978) on the "signal sensing tuners" employed in the US automobile radios of the mid-1950s. . . .with the "Wonder Bar" tuning. Is the Grundig system quite similar with an unlatching and locking (stop) mode dependent upon signal strength?

Thank you so much
Respectfully,
Robert
 

I only changed the language flag (Ernest). You can delete my text by editing and your name will be there as editor.

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 2
Tuning Mode off GRUNDIG 5040W_3D ? 
16.Jul.04 11:06

Hans M. Knoll (D)
Editor
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Hans M. Knoll

 

Hello Robert, Your question was:

 Do you, or any other radiomuseum member know if the information was translated into English.

My answer is:

I think, but I am not sure, this technical information is not translate to english.

I believe I have seen a reference for an export model as Grundig 5040W/3D "Ausfuhrung B" . . .
That's possible, but I don't now!

 I have only a' information and a' question in the past Years from Great Britain,  some on  looks for Infos to this 5040W 3D "GB" or "U" ( U means USA) 
I am beginning the complete restoration of this impressive model, and would be most appreciative of any technical hints.

Don't stopp! 

I have performed some service (in 1976-1978) on the "signal sensing tuners" employed in the US automobile radios of the mid-1950s. . . .with the "Wonder Bar" tuning.

 Is the Grundig system quite similar with an unlatching and locking (stop) mode dependent upon signal strength?

No, this is not a searching Type, like SABA from the late fivties or sixties , and not like a Car -Radio  with automatic searching and store, its only a' memory like "favorite - or last - Station - Memory". 

Some US Table models for Medium - Wave used this Feature in the fivties.

 

Well I am happy that I can give a small Information.

Regards from Hans M. Knoll

 

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 3
Restoring Grundig 5040W/3D with Motor Tuning 
17.Jul.04 01:16

Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22 (USA)
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Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22

Greetings Hans,
Thank you so much for your informative replies. . .I understand how the tuning motor causes the tuning capacitor and dial pointer to travel from right to left (and left to right). I believe the reversing feature activates as the tuning capacitor reaches full open or full closed. Am I thinking correctly??

I suppose the user must activate the EIN-AUS lever to select the desired station as it slowly passes by, since the motor stops VERY abruptly as the lever is moved to AUS.

I will take several digital photos as the restoration progresses, and post them in a specific site (if that is acceptable to the staff and members).

Again, thank you for your help.

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 4
How the memory of 4040W_3D works? 
18.Jul.04 15:32

Hans M. Knoll (D)
Editor
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Hans M. Knoll

Hallo Robert, here my statement to your questions!

Some off your questions was:

I understand how the tuning motor causes the tuning capacitor and dial pointer to

travel from right to left (and left to right).  I believe the reversing feature activates as the tuning capacitor reaches full open or full closed. Am I thinking correctly??   I am sorry, no!

I will give you a example, 

"A"  Given is, the Set comes as new from the factory.  In the MW1 Memory is loaded  = 600kcs.  on MW2 Memo is loaded = 1500kcs. On FM1 Memo is loaded = 90Mcs And on FM2 is loaded 100Mcs.
When the lever: "Motor- Abstimmung"  is in "off position, the unit works like a simple Radio -set. 

"B"  At next we  suppose,  The automatic is always "off"  you have tuned by hand first, on  MW1 range  to 900kcs, on then MW2 to 1200kcs, and also on FM1 to 95 Mcs and at least, on FM2 to 97Mcs. The automatic is always "off" .     If you chance the Band -buttons  now,  from FM2 to MW2, or FM1 and  at next to MW1  the Unit toes nothing.  The Pointer is fixed mechanical on the last given position of 97Mcs.   

In this moment,  when you switch on the  lever: "Motor- Abstimmung",  the unit tuned by using the Motor to 600kcs when you have selected MW1, on MW2 to 1500kcs, on FM1 to 90Mcs and on FM2 to 100Mcs .  this are the factory loaded frequencies.

The reason is, this positions are programmed on Factory in the Memory.  see "A"

"C"  And now

If you tune the Set by hand, and to not switch the lever: "Motor- Abstimmung"  in "off" position, any of your  information, made  from you   goes now in the memory. I have called before < last station memory> mostly used for the favourite Station.

This process always repeat if you not switch "off " the lever: "Motor-Abstimmung". 

"D"  or

If you tune and  have switch, before,   the lever: "Motor- Abstimmung"  in "off" position, ( the standard for receives far Stations)  this information goes not in the memory.  And now, when you switch "on" the lever: "Motor- Abstimmung,   your last (favourite)  station comes back. 

O.K.?

You:

I suppose the user must activate the EIN-AUS lever to select the desired station as it slowly passes by, since the motor stops VERY abruptly as the lever is moved to AUS.

No, is not correct!   During the Motor  move the Pointer, the Sound is "off".

And Moving the Lever, during the Motor is in action, the Memory ( rotate connectors) was killed!!   Very bad thing!

O.K. Robert, I think its enough for the moment . It is very hard for me, to write this difficult Processes in English.

Reading   is good,  searching for words, hard!

Best regards from Hans, in Franconia near Nuremberg

 

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 5
Memory of 4040W_3D and also 5040W_3D 
18.Jul.04 17:15

Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22 (USA)
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Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22

Greetings Hans,
Thank you so much for the detailed explanation of the system operation.

I hope I have not added to my restoration efforts by observing the motor operation by activating the lever. One last question, (and I hope I ahve not caused irrepairable damage) :

Since I removed the chassis from the cabinet, the cotton dial string has been disconnected from the tuning capacitor spool and axial shaft that controls the "preset" stops has not been turning at all.

I am waiting to receive the correct type of cord to restring the dial portion.

Am also searching to find a replacement dial glass.

Thank you again for your patience and efforts to explain the function of the system to me. I typed the entire first page of the Technische Informationen 2/54, and used a Babelfish translation software (for German too English). . . .it helped me some. But it is NOTHING compared to your explanation. The audio muting feature, during motor operation, is quite noteworthy.

Respectfully,
Robert

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 6
the final! 
18.Jul.04 18:31

Hans M. Knoll (D)
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Hans M. Knoll

Hello Robert, 

And Moving the Lever, during the Motor is in action, the Memory ( rotate connectors) was killed!!   Very bad thing!

This warning is important, if you due this more then 4 to 5 times.

You can check this by eyes on the rotated  discs on top from the tuning. Condenser. If you see little burns in the Silver surface, you can polish this with 

 "never Dull"  you now? ;-)   motorcyclist  can give you information!

O.K. so on  Hans

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 7
Hans, One last Final Question - Bitte 
12.Sep.04 19:54

Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22 (USA)
Articles: 363
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Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22

Hans,
I finished restringing the variable condensor drive wheel and the moving disks aggregate drive wheel yesterday after a few hours (with the help of curved threading tool I implemented). The thickness of the Perlonseil material used to connect the drehkondensator antriebsrad to the achse and then to the zeiger was not identified, and I used some of the "dial string" sold by some US antique radio supplies sellers. The "substitute material" was totally inadequate, I believe mainly because it is too thick (ca. 0,8mm) and it began fraying after many travels up and down the dial scale. I am aware that placement of the drive wheels is critical for proper operation of the radio.

I am sure that I must use the most nearly correct material since the moving disks aggregate drive wheel moves into and out-of the comb of the selector assembly, and the steel cable may ride over the top of the perlonseil rope

Do you, or any radiomuseum members know if the "Perlon-faden" thread manufactured by Knorr is a proper substitute for the Original Perlonseil material?

Respectfully,
Robert

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 8
Greatest Thanks and Respect 
13.Sep.04 16:22

Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22 (USA)
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Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22

Herr Knoll,
Thank you so VERY much for your assistance and offering of the issue to members of the forum to determine any additional technical repair instructions relating to these models.

Also many thanks for the technical expertise re: FM theory, circuitry, and design for adaptation into the early receivers and in later production models!!

Respectfully,
Robert

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 9
Antrieb im GRUNDIG 5040W/3D mit Motor 
13.Sep.04 23:50

Hans M. Knoll (D)
Editor
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Hans M. Knoll

Hello Robert,
first thank you for the Praise abaut the FM Story.

Here in bring you a good and big Information to the Seilzug on 5040W.
Have you the right Rope on the right place?


And next, give mee your Postage Adress in US.
Via my E-mail adress ( seeing on RM.org)

I will send to you two differend Dimension off Perlonseil, each 2 meters long. 
This 2 meters   gives 3 pices off  Rope in the 5040.
 
O.K. ?

Regards from Hans near  Nuernberg

Additional: Tue. 09.14.04
Perlonseil (635 mm)
Kurzes Stahlseil (418 mm)
langes Stahlseil (985 mm) 


Drehko-Antriebsrad bis zum Rechtsanschlag drehen (Seileinführungsschlitz steht links). Perlonseil einfädeln in Drehko-Antriebsrad (1). Einlegen in dritte Rille von vorne, nach rechts herumführen und zweimal im Rechtswickelsinn um Antriebswelle führen.
Danach  Drehko-Antriebsrad  bis Linksanschlag drehen.  Perlonseil  wird dabei  aufgewickelt.

Kurzes Stahlseil in Drehko-Antriebsrad einhängen (2), Dann Aggregat-Antriebsrad ( Memory) ganz eindrehen (Rechtsanschlag) cklockwise, danach 6 Umdrehungen nach links (counter clockwise) drehen. Sodann kurzes Stahlsei! hinten in Aggregat-Antriebsrad einhängen, in den Schlitz führen und Aggregat-Antriebsrad soweit nach rechts drehen (ca. 3'/2 Umdrehungen) bis Seil aufgewickelt ist.
Darauf achten, dass   Verbindungsstahlseil zwischen Aggregat-Antriebsrad und Drehko-Antriebsrad ( important)  genau senkrecht steht.


Langes Stahlseil vorn in Aggregat-Antriebsrad einhängen (3). 1/2  Umdrehung rechts herum in die erste Nute führen.
Ueber grosse Skalen-Seilrolle (links) führen und m Feder des Perlonseiles einhängen. (Perlonseil wurde von Antriebswelle über beide kleine Skalen-Seilrollen geführt).
Stahlseil einmal um mittleren Steg des Zeiger-Oberteils schlingen.
 
Zeiger-Eichung:
Der Zeiger muss  senkrecht stehen und in der Endstellung rechts auf 1 der Ziffer "510 Kc"   stehen.

Greadings Hans

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 10
Antrieb im GrundigW/3D mit Motor 
14.Sep.04 02:02

Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22 (USA)
Articles: 363
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Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22

Guten Tag Herr Knoll,
Thank you again. I have been confused about the Anfangstellung of the wanderscheiben aggregat antriebsrad. The Abb. 12 on TI 2/54 makes the schnurlaufrad appear to be fully screwed into the elektrischen gedächtniss. . . .also confusing me is Abb. 1 mit Abb. 12


I send you my mailing address as you requested, and try again. I believe I will succeed.

Respectfully,
Robert

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 11
More, new informations 
14.Sep.04 12:32

Hans M. Knoll (D)
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Hans M. Knoll

Hello Robert, please read Post 9 again!

greadings , Hans  

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 12
More New Information - Excellent 
14.Sep.04 23:07

Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22 (USA)
Articles: 363
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Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22

Herr Knoll,
Vielen danke. . .this information is exactly what I was expecting. Please accept my apology for not stating more clearly my problem. You have made the Instruction VERY "klar".

Respectfully,
Robert
PS: I hope to enjoy my 5040 very much, MANY thanks to you!!

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 13
clear up 
15.Sep.04 12:15

Hans M. Knoll (D)
Editor
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Hans M. Knoll

Hello Robert,

its fine, when i have see the right things.

please: there is no Problem between  your 5040 , you in person and mee!

Many yeahrs i read betwenn the lines off , us english, italien english and  a long time in japanese english. 
I can read technical english probable good, but write ? hm :-(  
I am so happy, if i can help anybody with my know how!

Tomorrow  i send two Types of rope to Mr John. They will send it with the other Components off GRUNDIG to you.

i think, the black/ white is the right one. Please try.


O.K. read your netxt letters gladly,

Hans from Frankonia

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 14
Unforgettable Master Craftsmen 
15.Sep.04 15:41

Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22 (USA)
Articles: 363
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Robert Sarbell † 22.3.22

Herr Knoll,
You are too kind to me. I shall remember your sage advise and counsel in the same manner that I do for my 10th, 11th, and 12 grade mathematics, physics, and geometry teacher Mr Leland Kirst (a Swiss German gentleman) who instilled in his students a true Love of Learning.

Since graduation in 1958, I frequently recall mathematical and scientific principles he instilled in me. He explained that it was a true gift for those individuals who could detect "errors of omission", i.e., "seeing what you don't see" in an explanation or illustration.

Reference the perlonseil. . .the 2 pieces that I removed appeared to be "black and gray-green" (which may have originally been white and turned quite dark from age and dust/moisture over the nearly 50 years)
After thorough cleaning in hot soapy water and drying properly, the original colors are a white central core with 4 small black threads woven or braided around the core. Fibers are extremely fine as described in the original German technical article of these man-made fibers.

Respectfully,
Robert

PS: I wish to add my grateful appreciation to Mr Ernest Erb for his kind review and edit in Post 1 of this forum.

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 15
Restoring Grundig 5040W/3D with Motor Tuning 
13.Jul.17 07:18
5477 from 7983

James Miller (USA)
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James Miller

I found this old forum which discussed the motor tuning and decided to add my question here.

I am also restoring my Grundig 5040W3D, which I began several years ago, and also have a question about the motor tuning. I notice that the motor turns off when a memorized position is reached, but then the flywheel on the tuning knob continues to rotate briefly due to inertia.  This causes the tuning to go beyond the memorized position. Is this normal?  It seems that there needs to be some mechanism to stop the tuning instantly when the memorized position is reached.  Is there an adjustment, or perhaps it is missing a part?

Thank you.

 

James Miller

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 16
Restoring Grundig 5040W/3D with Motor Tuning 
13.Jul.17 23:26
5533 from 7983

James Miller (USA)
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James Miller

My post can be disregarded. I now see the problem.  Traveling discs were not aligned properly.  The braking is accomplished by the motor reversing direction briefly when the memorized position is reached. A very ingenious mechanism.  

Best regards,

James

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