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nordmende: 58; Elektra 58P

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Forum » Radios and other type of sets (Physics) etc. » MODELS DISPLAYED » nordmende: 58; Elektra 58P
           
Mario Coelho
Mario Coelho
 
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21.May.05 01:24

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Dear German Radiofriends

I have one schematic of a Nordmende Elektra 58 P.
I can't perceive the differences (if they exist) between the Elekra 58 and the Elektra 58 P. I think they are identical.
So I'm not sure if is important to upload it in Rmorg.
If they are different, I've to upload the model before.But if so,I don't know what other external differences has the 58P.
Do you help me?

Thank You
Best Regards
Mário


 
Omer Suleimanagich
Omer Suleimanagich
 
USA  Articles: 408
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21.May.05 07:17

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Reply  |  You aren't logged in. (Guest)   2 Could "P" be a model that was "screwdrivered" together in Portugal for the Portugal market in let's say some, 50/50 owned, German/Portugal company.

The Slovenians at the time had a very extensive "screwdriver" industry, making the finishing touches,and slapping a "Made in Yugoslavia" sticker, all in the attempt to bring foreign knowhow into the country, from the forties to ninties.

I assume that maybe Portugal was doing this at the time too like in many other countries around the world. After all, for a while Grundig made all their radios in Portugal in the 1980's.

Omer
Hans M. Knoll
Hans M. Knoll
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22.May.05 10:02

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Hello Mario and hello Omer.

After tree Days anybody can answer here on RM.org.

I am not expert for Nordmende, but I try to give you an idea. To your Diagram.

In the fifties, Portugal was an important Country for Export from Germany.

Your Diagram "Kadett P" is from a Radio with FM Reception in the 100 Mcs Range.

I not now when Portugal starting in FM, this text say's "1956"

A "Emissora Nacional" inaugura os seus dois primeiros emissores de Frequência Modulada em Lisboa e Lousã.

Above the Name from SET you can see:  "6/10 Kreis -Super " in German language.
I think that's not" for Export" Radios  

The suffix "P" can say Portuguese!  It's also possible that means: "PRESSSTOFF" (EPOXY) or  "Bakelite".
In The season1956/57 Nordmende has the "Kadett 57" in "P", the Elektra 57 in "wood"
In 1957/58 also the "Kadett 58" in "P" and the "Elektra 58" in "wood" Cabinets

Maybe booth Types, are make for Export in "P" (epoxy) Versions. Lower Price or avoid problems with Moisture? I  dont now!

O.K. Friends,  that's only you can see, you are not alone here!

Best regards from Hans M. Knoll

 

This article was edited 22.May.05 10:16 by Hans M. Knoll .

Mario Coelho
Mario Coelho
 
P  Articles: 452
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22.May.05 17:37

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Reply  |  You aren't logged in. (Guest)   4  Dear Mr. Omer, Dear Mr. Knoll

Thank You very much for Your replies.

Your comments were very useful to me. After all I learned from You more about what had happened here, in Portugal, in Sixties.
I'm sorry I can't do the same to help You about German Nordmende's references.
I think I understood what Mr. Knoll said: Is not for sure the true meaning of P: It may be from
Portugal or may be Epoxy or Bakelite.

Do You know any other Nordmende's models with this P?
I didn't see one in Rmorg. If they are  Epoxy or Bakelite made models why they were not uploaded or they were not spoken about yet in Rmorg?

Thank You

Best Regards

Mário

Hans Kamann
Hans Kamann
 
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22.May.05 19:12

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Reply  |  You aren't logged in. (Guest)   5 Dear Mario

as I got from Mr. Knoll´s comments he wasn´t absolute sure whether "P" could stand for "Pressstoff = Bakelite" or "Portugal". I checked existing Nordmende Models, for example http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_modell.cfm?model_id=21171 which has a Bakelite chassis but it´s schematics do not mention "P". This appears to complicate the whole story.

As long as no-one can really prove what´s right or wrong we can only keep guessing: Is it possible, that models which were ONLY availabe in a certain chassis, were not marked as "Wood" or "Bakelite" ? Only models, where both variants were available, could have been indicated  ? I guess this was the idea Mr. Knoll was following.
Mario Coelho
Mario Coelho
 
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22.May.05 20:21

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Hello Mr. Hans Kamann


Thank You for Your help and explanation.

I didn't see a Nordmende Bakelite made in Rmorg because I did a search looking for models with a P. 

I still don't understand why my schematic needs to have that P ? Are the chassis and the electrical diagrams of Electra 58 a 58 P equals? Aren't they?
Only the cabinets are different? I guess.

Or then, why is not written Electra 58-58P in schematic?

Perhaps Mr. Hinrich Grensemann who uploaded the bakelite Electra 58 picture in Rmorg may tell us if there is written a P in its set's back cover , or not.
 
Best Regards

Mário

This article was edited 22.May.05 23:04 by Mario Coelho .

Hans Kamann
Hans Kamann
 
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25.May.05 11:42

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Reply  |  You aren't logged in. (Guest)   7 Dear Mario,

could you provide a scan of your "P" schematics, please send it by eMail even if it´s a very big one. Could you use a file format without compression please ? Ideal would be .png. I´ll do the comparison task but it may take a while since I´ll be on a biker´s meeting in northern germany for the xext few days. Or, even better, would you be able to scan the schematics for differences ? You´ll find my eMail adress in my profile.

Cheers

Hans
Henning Oelkers
Henning Oelkers
Editor
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25.May.05 12:20

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Reply  |  You aren't logged in. (Guest)   8 Dear, All,

just a short Idea: There may be a difference, in how the Case ( Wood or Bakelite ) responds to the Audio from the Speakers rear, and this may make it nessesary to tune ( use different values for C's and R's ) the AF Stages, to minimize Case Resonances.

This then needs to be documented in the Diagram.

I know, it is many "may be", but schould be OK, to share with You.

Good Luck,

Henning
Mario Coelho
Mario Coelho
 
P  Articles: 452
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25.May.05 13:32

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Reply  |  You aren't logged in. (Guest)   9 Dear Radio Friends

Thank you very much for your prompt help and tips.

I already sent my schematic 58P to Mr. Hans Kamann to compare.
                                  
                                             ----o-----
Now,
looking to that bakelite model in Rmorg: http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_modell.cfm?model_id=21171 

 It is a Kadett.

The next Nordemende 58 in Rmorg  is a wooden one, but it is an Elektra.

So  I guess that the differences between wood and bakelite may not be the P, but the models name: Elektra versus Kadett.

Elektra = wood
Kadett = bakelite

Do you agree?

Cheers

Mário

This article was edited 25.May.05 15:11 by Mario Coelho .

Henning Oelkers
Henning Oelkers
Editor
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25.May.05 15:12

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Reply  |  You aren't logged in. (Guest)   10 Dear Mario,

there are three Differences between Kadett and Elektra shown in the Circuit Diagram:
- Different Speaker, Part Number for Speaker is different.
- Only Elektra has EM34
- Only Elektra has Pushbutton Set for Sound Variation ( Sprache, Orchester, Solo ). They are mounted above the Dial Glass, below the Speaker.

Therefore i do not agree with Your Idea. Also then, the Diagram schould be named as
" Elektra58 + Kadett58P, but Elektra58 also has the "P" .

We will see what Hans Kamann is able to find, when comparing the Circuit Diagrams.

This is the best way, to switch over from guessing to Reality.

Best wishes,

Henning


Mario Coelho
Mario Coelho
 
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25.May.05 16:40

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Dear Henning

I agree with You. There are electrical differences between Elektra and Kadett.
In "Elektra-58; Kadett58" schematic, the electrical differences are visible.Yes,it is an electrical diagram.
But those different performances compel to a different cabinet. At last a different front panel. (Those differences are not explained inside of this schematic. It does not need to). Why Kadett's cabinet may not be also bakelite made? Schematic does not need to show that.

By the way, Mr. Hinrich Grensemann sent me a photograph of his set. Is written in his bakelite set's rear cover: "Kadett 58".

Though we have to stop guessing, I guess this  P  is not known in Germany's
inland trade.

Best Regards

Mário 

This article was edited 25.May.05 22:29 by Mario Coelho .

Hans Kamann
Hans Kamann
 
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26.May.05 09:36

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Reply  |  You aren't logged in. (Guest)   12 As far as I could get from Maario´s first scan: The RM listed model and the "P" model differ !

Mario: Could you please provide a new scan, please scan in black & white and use a higher resolution. I need to zoom in to see more details but the lower the resolution the more difficult this job becomes.

Admins: should we define a new model or simply keep this as a further variant of the already listed Elektra58 ?

Cheer

Hans
Mario Coelho
Mario Coelho
 
P  Articles: 452
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26.May.05 15:49

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Reply  |  You aren't logged in. (Guest)   13

Hallo Hans

I already sent a hi-resolution schematic.

Yes You are right. There are differences in this schematics.
Elektra 58 - Kadett 58 has: UKW,MW and LW
Elektra 58P- Kadett 58P has :UKW, MW; 2x KW.

The other circuits seems to be identical.

Best Regards

Mário

Hans Kamann
Hans Kamann
 
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02.Jun.05 09:54

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Reply  |  You aren't logged in. (Guest)   14 Es gibt noch einen deutschen Thread hierzu: http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/normende_elektrakadett_58_und_elektrakadett_58p.html
Mario Coelho
Mario Coelho
 
P  Articles: 452
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13.Jun.05 21:16

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Hello Hans

I don't speak German but I asked for help in "Alta Vista" and I could follow you.
Thank you for uploading in Rmorg the schematic I sent to you.

Can you tell us also your conclusions about the meaning
 of P ? Is anything else more than different waves?

Some time ago I uploaded in Rmorg one Schaub Lorenz Goldy 2P

http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_modell.cfm?model_id=75523

This Radio set was found here in Portugal and has its dial glass written in Portuguese language and shows the regional Portuguese broadcast stations.

Best Regards
Mário

This article was edited 13.Jun.05 21:23 by Mario Coelho .

  
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