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PE-Stereo 4230

PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 463368) R-Player
 
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 464185) R-Player
 
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 962729) R-Player
 
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 962730) R-Player
 
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 962731) R-Player
 
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 962732) R-Player
 
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 962733) R-Player
 
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 962734) R-Player
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 98020) R-Player PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 98021) R-Player
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 1728647) R-Player PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 1728648) R-Player
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 1728649) R-Player PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 1728650) R-Player
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 1728651) R-Player PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 1728652) R-Player
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 1728653) R-Player  
Use red slider bar for more.
PE-Stereo 4230; Perpetuum-Ebner PE; (ID = 98020) R-Player
Perpetuum-Ebner PE;: PE-Stereo 4230 [R-Player] ID = 98020 933x606
Select picture or schematic to display from thumbnails on the right and click for download.
For model PE-Stereo 4230, Perpetuum-Ebner (PE); St.Georgen
 
Country:  Germany
Manufacturer / Brand:  Perpetuum-Ebner (PE); St.Georgen
Year: 1960 ?? Category: Sound/Video Recorder and/or Player
Wave bands - without
Details Record Player (not changer)
Power type and voltage Alternating Current supply (AC) / 220 Volt
Loudspeaker - For headphones or amp.
Power out
from Radiomuseum.org Model: PE-Stereo 4230 - Perpetuum-Ebner PE; St.Georgen
Material Metal case
Shape Chassis only or for «building in»
Dimensions (WHD) 405 x 90 x 145 mm / 15.9 x 3.5 x 5.7 inch
Notes 4 Geschwindigkeiten: 16, 33, 45, 78 UpM.
Source of data Radiokatalog Band 2, Ernst Erb

Model page created by Wolfgang Bauer. See "Data change" for further contributors.



All listed radios etc. from Perpetuum-Ebner (PE); St.Georgen
Here you find 284 models, 258 with images and 53 with schematics for wireless sets etc. In French: TSF for Télégraphie sans fil.



 


Forum contributions about this model
Perpetuum-Ebner PE;: PE-Stereo 4230
Threads: 4 | Posts: 30
Hits: 1264     Replies: 1
perpetuum: Is this the correct wiring?
Paul E. Pinyot † 2013
17.Feb.11
  1

I am putting the final touches on the Grundig with the PE4230. I want to make sure it is wired correctly. 

 Please look at the below schematic and comment. Is this wired properly from A to B? 

I have not determined a 60hz capacitor as of yet. The 1.1 uf came with the unit. 
 
I did machine the motor pulley to put the platter on speed for 60hz. I built up the pulley with Bondo auto body putty that some one has filed.  I let the Bondo harden for several weeks. It is hard as a rock. I shaped it with a miniature file and sand paper to a slight convex curve. The belt ride in the middle of the shaped pulley.  
 
Thank you,
Paul.

Vincent de Franco
17.Feb.11
  2

Hi Paul,

here something I found about the DUAL and PE. It's all in German, but lots of pictures and

contact information, perhaps even a source for spare parts.

 

Link to the German Phono Museum.

Georg Beckmann

 

 
Hits: 2344     Replies: 8
perpetuum: Idler wheel source.
Paul E. Pinyot † 2013
21.Nov.10
  1

After a long search and a few unanswered e-mails, I found an idler wheel source here:  Click here.   The cost is $25 with exchange of your old wheel. I measured the old wheel.  The dimensions listed match just about perfectly.

There are more parts than idler wheels on this web site.

Paul.


1499-50 OD = 1.77 in

Idler drive wheel for Perpetuum-Ebner, Grundig, Telfunken, Trav-Ler and other record players.

Replacement Comments:
Replaces P-E part 101390 for 33, 34, 66 models; Grundig part 9002017 for PE 66 model; Telefunken part 9102017 for TW 566 model; Trav-Ler 10-1390 for PE 66 model.

Specifications:
OD (inches): 1.770
ID (inches): 0.117
Height (inches): 0.220
Thickness (inches): 0.097

Comments:
In stock - will ship once your old part and payment received.

Part # Description Replacement Comment Availability Price Add To Cart
1499-50 Phono idler wheel - Requires mail in of old part with order     Available $25.00

Ernst Erb
27.Nov.10
  2

An information by Paul Pinyot which we had to delete in an other post:
 

New Drive Belt

I found a listing for this model's belt with: turntableneedles.com/- Go to "Drive Belts"  Then choose the turn table option, then select the "Find My Player" button and go to PE listing.  Then select the 4230.  That is it. The site lists an FBL6.6 Flat Belt, Large 6.6 Inch for $13.95 as of this date. I ordered one.  I have installed it and the belt works great!

AC motor capacitors

I have to convert the motor from 50 to 60 Hz operation (160Vac stamped on this unit). I am seeing a little vibration or flutter.  So I looked up AC capacitors and ordered a selection. I will experiment with the value starting at 1uf (installed for 50Hz) and decrease for minimum heat, minimum flutter and smooth 60 Hz operation.  The source is Mouser on this page. The origonal AC capacitor in my turntable is 1 uf 200 vac.  I ordered a selection of 250vac caps for other motor applicaitons (i.e., Philips BD753A).

 

Bob Timms
12.Feb.11
  3

Hello Ernst

The motor on my PE 4230 is running hot. I do not know what normal should be.

This originally was a 220V German Radio which I am running on 120 VAC here in the U.S.

I turned the motor shaft to help get correct platter speeds. It plays very well and speed are correct, but motor seems hot to me.

The motor voltage is 211 VAC the original capacitor is .15 @ 450 VAC  I believe this value has to be changed as I am running on 120 VAC @ 60 Hz

How did you make out with yours, when changing capacitor values?

I think the capacitor effects the timing phase of the windings, but not educated in that line.

Any light or help you can shed on this will be appreciated.

Thank you for the source for the new belt I now have on it.

UPDATE

I put a .1 capacitor in . Motor will not start at all.

I have a .12 in now and it starts and runs fine , but still motor is hot. I can hold my hand on the windings but it is very hot. Maybe Normal ????

Thank You

Bob Timms

Georg Richter
13.Feb.11
  4

Assuming that the coils have no isolation problem - it is quite normal that certain shaded pole motors are running hot after a while, even if the mains voltage and frequency are as specified. Some of them have to rewire their (two) coils for different voltages (e.g. 110/220V), or was of special voltage, connected to a tap on the primary of the mains transformer.

Their speed is generally dedicated to the mains frequency.Usually you have to change the pulley if the mains frequency is different. Adjusting the speed with capacitors is not the best way.

Best Regards,

GR

Bob Timms
13.Feb.11
  5

I turned the motor shaft down to .190. I was hoping lowering the cap it would help the motor run cooler.

50/60 Hz

Bob Timms

Bob Timms
15.Feb.11
  6

org/r/perpetuum_pe_stereo_4230.htmlI need a Translation to English of the Complete Paragraph in this booklet

Starts out

Umste des Plattenspielers von 50 auf 60 Hz

 

Thanks

Bob Timms

Paul E. Pinyot † 2013
15.Feb.11
  7

When changing the frequency, there is the possibility to replace the motor role for a special role. The conversion let the expediency drove through your specialized handler.

I get the idea they want you to take it to the local shop. Use the word "Capacitor" in for "role".

Paul.
 

Bob Timms
15.Feb.11
  8

Paul

Thank you.

Tested my original capacitor today. Marked .15 but checks .27  New one on the way. Should fix my problem,

 

Bob Timms

 

Paul E. Pinyot † 2013
15.Feb.11
  9

That is typical of almost all older capacitors (except for precision specified caps).  They have an asymmetrical tolerance rating like +30% - 5%.  It was harder to manufacture tight tolerances back then.  So they let the cap value go high and kept the minimum tight to the marked value.  You will also see this in old but still good electrolytic.

Today the caps are much much tighter tolerance. 
 
I have been reading about motor caps.  I still have not found a formula.  But I did see it stated that the cap should be as small as possible but still insure reliable starting.  This keeps the eddie currents (i.e., heat) to a minimum.
 
Remember there is a variable starting load on the motor depending on what speed the selector is on and if there is a heavy record (i.e., lacquer 78 rpm) on the platter.  And line voltage will also have a slight effect on starting torque. 
 
Test your new capacitor solution under different starting conditions.
 
Paul.
 
 
 
Hits: 2418     Replies: 8
perpetuum: Anti Skate adjustments?
Paul E. Pinyot † 2013
11.Jun.10
  1

The tone arm "skates" across the record when the needle touches the record.  I am familiar with anti-skate adjustments on other turn tables.  But after typing some of the instructions into Google Translate I could not find a procedure for this turn table. 

1)  Is there an Anti Skate adjustment? 

2) Does the cam arm the makes the motor turn off hold a spring that compensated Skate?

3) Did I miss some thing on my German to English translation that explains how to adjust for Anti-Skate?

Thank you my German reading/translating friends.

Paul.

Bernhard Nagel
12.Jun.10
  2

Paul,

due to the (quite simple) construction of this PE record player, there is no provision for a skating force compensating given. Almost all players which work
1. with a crystal pick-up mounted in a
2. non-counterweight balanced tonearm lacks of this feature. So you won't localize such an adjustment here.

If the tonearm skates across the groove(s), several things should be considered for a reason. First, the sapphire needle could be worn out. The tip should be ball-shaped (spherical) if watched through a microscope with at least 50 (better 100x) magnification factor. Second, the rubber support/bearing in the pickup (where the needle tubule is rested) could became hardened so the compliance is lowered too much. Third, any force applied to the tonearm could make them tend to swing towards the center hole of the disc. And last but not least, the tracking force should be in a range from 5...8 grams (depends at the specifications of the pickup).

Hope, this will help you.

Regards,
Bernhard

Paul E. Pinyot † 2013
12.Jun.10
  3

Bernhard,

Thank you for the explanation.  I believe the Sapphire is worn out.  I will look for a supplier for a new needle or a whole cartridge.  I believe there is a procedure for rebuilding cartridges from Syl ( on RM.org). 

I only remaining action is to verify the spring location on the power off cam located on the tone arm shaft. 

Thanks again,

Paul.

Paul E. Pinyot † 2013
18.Jun.10
  4

Bernhard, 

I put a new needle on the cartridge today. It works and does not skate. BUT the output is low. I must turn the volume just about all the way full.
 
Are there replacement cartridges available?
 
Thanks,
Paul

Update:  I ordered this cartridge from ebay #350366946025. $22 dollars shipped domestic.  I will try and change the mounting bracket and install the new and tested cartridge in the unit.  I will report back once I install and test the phono. I also purchased the needle mentioned above for about 5 bucks shipped.

I also adjusted the "turn off" cam.  If it is not bumped or vibrated it will turn off the motor at the proper end of the record.

But I am still not confident it works properly.  There is a weight that applies friction to the cam holding it from advancing relative to the tone arm and engaging the turn off function too soon.

PP.

Bob Timms
12.Feb.11
  5

Hi Paul

Where is the "TURN OFF CAM" ?

Mine is late to shut off. I have to move the arm right to the spindle to get it to turn off.

A photo might help me locate said CAM.

Thank you

Bob Timms

Paul E. Pinyot † 2013
12.Feb.11
  6

The long arm is the start of the turn off mechinism.  it will be pushed by a small spring wrapped around the platter. 

 

I hope this helps. I have more pictures at this link.

Paul.

Bob Timms
13.Feb.11
  7

My PC board the capacitor is mounted on is different than your 4230. There must be different versions.

I adjusted the shut off , by loosening the 2 sloted screws on the coller below the pickup arm.

You then move the arm itself very slightly in the needed direction to increase or decrease the trip point. You do not have to move it very much to gain a big adjustment. Tighten one screw and try. Repeat as necessary. Took about 6 tries for me and now it shuts off excellent.

 

Having a problem getting the motor to run cooler. Need a .12 @ 450 VAC Cap.

Mouser does not list it.

Bob Timms

Paul E. Pinyot † 2013
13.Feb.11
  8

Bob,

Moving the Tone arm on the shaft is how I set the eject point.  It only took you six tries you say? ;~)

I just ordered a variety of caps capable of handling the AC voltage.  See this page here.  They have an AC voltage rating that will handle your ac supply. You may have to parallel a few to get the exact cap value you are looking for.  You should be able to "test drive" your cap selection with the yellow 630v polyester/polypropylene caps for a short time.  Do not leave them in permanently.  Some of those caps can handle a significant AC voltage. But you have to check the specs.

If I recall correctly you need about a 1.1uf cap for that motor. (This motor runs at 160 volts).  I do not have my old collage notes on calculating the cap needed to generate the phase shift for these motors (I wish I kept those old lab notes). 

I do recall reading about the motor cap in other RM.org postings.  Try a search.

Paul

Bob Timms
13.Feb.11
  9

Paul

My Motor runs @ 220 VAC. It is a German Radio not a US import.

I am using the 125 VAC tap to run it The original cap in mine is .15 MF @ 450 VAC

The measured voltage motor running is 213 VAC.

I have tried differnt cap values using 1600 VDC caps

.125 MF works good. Motor runs cooler but not by much.

.133 MF works better as far as starting from a discharged point.

The Temperature  is what I was trying to get to run cooler. Possible Phase shift created in the 2 windings for 50 Hz operation.

END result. I will install a NEW .15 @500 VAC and let it go at that. Think I am being anal on this.

Used the link to Mouser. I have account with them . Like them alot NO min order.

Hopefull I can call it DONE oncew the cap arrives. Great site you have photo's help alot.

Might want to have a photo showing the coller with the 2 slotted screws, used to adjust shutoff limit. I will snap one when I get mine out to install new cap.

Cheers,

Bob T.

 
Hits: 6419     Replies: 9
Perpetuum Ebner Turntable
Ake Nyholm
27.Mar.06
  1
Dear all,

I am restoring a radio receiver (from 1960) having also Perpetuum Ebner turntable type4230PE _Stereo (127V -50Hz, 6w)included. Unfortunate the turntable motor does not work because of the "Black" component, shown in attached picture, is open in circuit. I assume the "black" component is wire-wounded resistor but its value is unreadable. There are anyhow very dim numbers 25 on view.

Could somebody kindly help and advice me what is this Black component?

Best regards
Ake

Attachments

Wolfgang Bauer
27.Mar.06
  2 Hello Mr. Nyholm,

when your model is built for 127 Volt, it is an resisitor approximate 1,8KOhm / ca. 8 to 10 Watt for using on 230 Volt. But control the 127 Volt direct on the connexion of the motor.
I calculate it for 6 Watts.

Regards WB.
Ake Nyholm
27.Mar.06
  3 Hi Mr Bauer,

Thank you for your comments.
Actually there is a "trick" because of radio's mains trafo has input for 110V and 127V. Turntable is connetecd to 127V point (autotrafo) for 220V.
I understand now that the "black" component is a resitor but obviously smaler than you did mention. Would it be 25 Ohms?

Best regards
Ake

Attachments

Wolfgang Bauer
27.Mar.06
  4 Hello Mr. Nyholm,
could you make a drawing, that i know, how your "tricky" ;-)) is working?

Regards WB.
Ake Nyholm
28.Mar.06
  5 Hi Mr. Bauer,

Please look at attached picture. Unfortunately original circuit diagram was very blury but hopefully readable.
I also made a drawing how I understan the voltage selector connection should be when the mains input voltage is 220V.

Regards
Ake

Attachments

Wolfgang Bauer
29.Mar.06
  6 Hello Mr. Nyholm,

Now I looked in my 220Volt model, there is no resisitor.
The capacitor in my 220Volt model is 0,16µF. In your 127Volt model it is 0,6µF.
Where does the resistor go to?
Normally your record player must work on 230Volt, when your wiring diagram is all right.

Regards WB.
Ake Nyholm
30.Mar.06
  7 Hi Mr. Bauer,

Thanks again about your comments.
I assume that my previous drawing was not so clear and therefore I made another one to show more illustrative view. The turntable is really working with 127V ac, please kindly look at attached photo and drawing.
You did ask to where the resistor X is connected. Unfortunately parts of the wires are hided by some mechanical parts in the turntable and I don't dare to break up those. There are some springs, which may jump off etc. From my drawing you hopefully can get some ideas, but how the wires are connected between the motor poles I don't see.

In the meantime I replaced the original (broken) resistor with new one having value of 25ohms. Now the turntable motor is running in "proper way" but I don't know if it is electrically OK.
It should be nice to here comments.

Regards
Ake

Attachments

Wolfgang Bauer
30.Mar.06
  8 Hello Mr. Nyholm,

now all is clear, it is a protective resistor.
I think, your resistor is quite correct.

Regards WB.
Otmar Jung
30.Mar.06
  9 Hello Mr. Nyholm,
if you can measure the resistance from each of the both leads to the broken point then you can calculate a value near of the original resistor.

Regards
Otmar Jung
Ake Nyholm
31.Mar.06
  10 Hello Mr. Jung,

Thank you, Your hint was very useful. Even the measurement, due to resistor body insulator, was not so easy, I learned that my earlier quess of 25Ohms was one decade to low. 250ohms seems to be more correct.

Regards
Ake

 
Perpetuum-Ebner PE;: PE-Stereo 4230
End of forum contributions about this model

  
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