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UA-345 (UA345-X)

UA-345 ; SABA; Villingen (ID = 116494) Radio
UA-345 ; SABA; Villingen (ID = 1635669) Radio UA-345 ; SABA; Villingen (ID = 1003200) Radio
UA-345 ; SABA; Villingen (ID = 2001358) Radio UA-345 ; SABA; Villingen (ID = 91893) Radio
UA-345 ; SABA; Villingen (ID = 544917) Radio UA-345 ; SABA; Villingen (ID = 91895) Radio
UA-345 ; SABA; Villingen (ID = 544919) Radio UA-345 ; SABA; Villingen (ID = 800668) Radio
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UA-345 ; SABA; Villingen (ID = 1635669) Radio
SABA; Villingen: UA-345 [Radio] ID = 1635669 933x700
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For model UA-345 (UA345-X), SABA; Villingen
 
Country:  Germany
Manufacturer / Brand:  SABA; Villingen
Brand
 
Schwer & Söhne, GmbH
Year: 1954/1955 Category: Broadcast Receiver - or past WW2 Tuner
Valves / Tubes 4: UCH42 UAF42 UCL81 UY41
Main principle Superheterodyne (common)
Tuned circuits 6 AM circuit(s)
Wave bands Broadcast plus 2 Short Wave bands.
Details
Power type and voltage AC/DC-set / 117 / 220 Volt
Loudspeaker Permanent Magnet Dynamic (PDyn) Loudspeaker (moving coil) / Ø 14 cm = 5.5 inch
Power out
from Radiomuseum.org Model: UA-345 - SABA; Villingen
Material Bakelite case
Shape Tablemodel, with any shape - general.
Dimensions (WHD) 290 x 190 x 180 mm / 11.4 x 7.5 x 7.1 inch
Notes The SABA UA345-X (schematic, 5372-3000b of date June 1954) or UA-345 (back board) is a typical export model. According to the journal "Funk-Fachhändler" 1954, page 108 (with a picture) and page 116 (text) the UA-345 has been introduced at the "Hannover Messe" 1954.
Net weight (2.2 lb = 1 kg) 2.8 kg / 6 lb 2.7 oz (6.167 lb)

Model page created by Mario Coelho. See "Data change" for further contributors.



All listed radios etc. from SABA; Villingen
Here you find 1569 models, 1434 with images and 1062 with schematics for wireless sets etc. In French: TSF for Télégraphie sans fil.



 


Forum contributions about this model
SABA; Villingen: UA-345
Threads: 3 | Posts: 24
Hits: 1963     Replies: 4
saba: UA-345 (UA345-X); - High plate voltages for 117V Operation?
Robert Sarbell
18.Mar.11
  1

Dear members,

I have not yet been able to resolve how the existing schematic resolves the high plate voltages developed for the radio without the netz trafo, and no full-wave rectifier, to act as voltage doubler.

The schematic depicts 196Vfor the mixer plate; and 170V for the UAF plate, and the 215V for the power pentode plate.

Is there a possibility that the UY41 rectifier is actually configured very much like some of the erarly CY1 tubes produced - which were in fact "dual diode rectifier" capable.

Our esteemed emeritus engineer Hans Knoll has stated that Robert Sarbell occasionally finds some peculiar receivers!

If there is additional technical data that was available when these variant models were introduced by Mario, and inferred from the Notes section, could some member please enlighten me?

Respectfully,

Robert Sarbell

Nnote: I am aware of the inner electrode connections between pins 4,6, and 7 for the UY41, and this tube can be adapted for different transformerless power sources.    

 

 

 

Hans M. Knoll
18.Mar.11
  2

Hello Robert.

 

Your Voltages was given for 220 AC not for 117V

RV (160Ohm) only for 220V on 117V she is shortet.

 

See here: 

Edit:  Mr. Georg Richter send me and Robert "cleaned" Curves to the UY41

I thank for this good job and attached as  Info here.

 

 

hans

Attachments

Hans M. Knoll
22.Mar.11
  3

 

Hello Robert, hello friends of the circuit technology of European radios.
 
It is unfortunately general so, that on models without power transformer, the tensions at the tubes and other circuit- points, indicated only at 220Volt ac.
For the mains voltage of AC 117V common in USA, there are not show generally any information.
From my collection of Philips export models, I could find a Model with Measurments at 220 and 110V ac.            The values are indicated. That represents a real rarity.
To the Attachment, I put this two Papers here as RF-part and Audio-part.
 
I hoppe somebody enjoy  that.
 
Hans M. Knoll

Attachments

Robert Sarbell
23.Mar.11
  4

Hello Hans,

Thank you so much for the technical data - several days ago I found 2 models from Philips (France) which use the UY41 rectifier; and the schematics depict the circuit values when the input is from 110V or 127V AC. The models are BF121U and BF251U

The voltages listed on the schematics are much closer to the voltages which I have measured on my small SABA UA345 - with the AC mains of 122V. 

I have been experiencing some of the intermitent "flashover" problems described in one of the Philips technical notes. Some technicians call the problem "sputtering". I understand the problem could possibly cause tube failure if left unresolved.

I have located and purchased an NOS UY42 rectifier, from a seller near me . . . . .and will consider installing that tube when it arrives.  

I am hoping that will solve my intermittent malfunction.

Respectfully,

Robert

Bruno Gandolfo-Canepa
23.Mar.11
  5

 Buona mattina carissimo amico Roberto and good evening to Hans,

Regarding the absent normal operation voltages on the schematics for the 117 AC power voltage, did you consider to use a doubling transformer from 117 to 220 VAC and to operate the UA 345 adjusted for 220 VAC. After the normal voltages operation are checked/corrected the set can be used at the normal operation 117VAC.

Respectfully, Bruno.

 
Hits: 2961     Replies: 8
saba: UA-345 (UA345-X);
Robert Sarbell
12.Mar.11
  1

Hello RMO members,

As Herr Knoll mentioned in the 2nd posting above, it seems as though I was most fortunate to win on ebaY one of the dwarf-sized export models, SN 54/832516, and have discovered the intermittent to weak reception on the SWII and SWI bands are probably related to the failed small antenna coil on the terminal board at the rear chassis.

I have had to unwind one of the 2 sections wound on the sub-miniature coil.

I beileve it may be near impossible to find another "parts chassis" for this radio. Therefore, I respectfully ask for assistance to determine the wire gauge (or size in fractional millimeters) to rewind the lost wire.

I removed 96 inches of the wire, but it had several serious kinks and will need to be "re-wound".

I am aware of the 22, 26, and 30 gauge spools for winding coils. 

I also have not seen any reference to the ratings for the antenna coil on the schematic.

I would be most grateful if some member is aware of this issue.

Respectfully,

Robert Sarbell

 

Attachments

Mario Coelho
15.Mar.11
  2

 

Hello Robert

I hope this is the coil. I took it out from my Saba to measure the wires for you.

The wires were fragile so they've  broken melted in wax, but I got them out from that mass to measure them.

The wires were 0.04mm diameter but my measure device is a digital caliper 0.02mm accuracy.....

so I've to measure them again (this week, I promise) with a micrometer.

Meanwhile I send you my Best Regards

Respectfully

Mário Coelho

 

 

Robert Sarbell
15.Mar.11
  3

Hello Mario,

 

Thank you so very much for the wire dimensions in the millimeter size.  I believed it had to be EXTREMELY fine in gauge.

I am still puzzled to know if there are 2 pairs of wires on your antenna coil. I have what appears to be 2 small sets of windings, however there were only 2 wire ends.

It appeared that one of my wires came out from the aft top side (antenna in) and connected to the small 60pF capacitor; and the other wire came out from the forward portion and originally connected to the Ground/5000pF capacitor

I also followed very closely the postings between you and Hans Knoll. If Hans is monitoriing our communications I would gratefully request to know what that the specific rating should be for that coil??

I would be interested to know if the coil should have the full range of frequencies to include both SWi and SWII bands - i.e. from 11.3 meters through 90 meters; and also from 220 to 550 meters for the MW band.

Ii have seen in my JW Miller coils catalog an Antenna coil which covers the 11 meters to 550meters - that is a very wide spectrum!!

Respectfully,

Robert

 

 

 

 

 

Hans M. Knoll
15.Mar.11
  4

 

Hello Robert.
This Coil is an IF- Trapp.
They shortend incomming IF- Frequencies to Ground, to avoid whistle on Programm.
This Funktion is given or necessary only at BC or Medium- Wave.
On booth SW- Bands the Antenna- Coils have a low impedance, thats the incomming IF- Signals,  have no effect on the Programm you lissen.
The exact IF Frequency is unknow.
Wenn 455Kc the inductivity must have 2035 µH
For 460 = 1992 µH
For 468 = 1925 µH
And for 473 = 1885 µH (maybe the right one)
 
The Q musst a Value between 40 and 70.
 
Your Problem with a low Sensitivity on booth SW- Bands must have an reason  on other Places..
I dont know where.
 
Hans
 
 
Mario Coelho
15.Mar.11
  5

 

Only two wires are visible outside the coil. In schematic only two are connected too.

 

The position in the aft, between 60pF (A) and schassis (B).

Respectfully

Mário Coelho

 

 

Robert Sarbell
15.Mar.11
  6

Hello Mario,

We are in complete agreement - I will admit that I need to become fully qualified to insert my edited photos into the text as most of the members do. I attach here the first attempt to locate the broken end after removing the little coil. . .

 

The photo above was taken shortly after removal to determine where the broken end of the wire was located. The total length of unwrap on this coil bobinette was approx 94 inches. . . .

I measured the Litze wires on my small coil this afternoon, and took 3 separate readings. They were all 0.11mm. I honestly did not know what the size would be.

However, I believe that with the information provided by Hans, and yourself I should have no problems to repair that portion of the circuits.

I have not yet even performed the tube tests on the rimlocks or the UCL81 - so, that may be all I need. I am finishing the cosmetics on my Philips BX745A/60 motorized waveband selection receiver, so I should have this problem resolved shortly.

I do have a slightly audible 60hz hum, so the elkos may definitely need to be replaced

Many thanks to you and to Hans,

Respectfully,

Robert

 

 

 

 

 

Attachments

Mario Coelho
18.Mar.11
  7

 

Hello again

I already have mesured the wire, now with a micrometer 0,01mm accuracy. The diameter is 0,05mm.

I add here bellow one photo of my caliper when I have mesured 0,04mm, but as I said before ,it  has only 0,02mm accuracy.

Next week I intend to disassemble the coil from the plastic core for further information.

Respectfully

 

Mário

Attachments

Mario Coelho
21.Mar.11
  8

 

Hello again

I just have disassembled the coil core.

After removing the wax, 4 wires plus appeared.Surprise!! The coil is not made by a single wire, but it is formed by 3 wires twisted together. The cable is then divided and  winded up equaly by two twin spools.

.

After unrolling the cable I 've mesured 2,74 meters by each spool.

Conclusion:

This coil is made of a  +/- 5,48 m cable. The cable is made of three 3 twisted wires of +/- 0.04mm diameter. The cable was winded up in 2 spools, 2,74m per spool.

This is compatible with schematic where one can see only one coil.

3 wires of 0,04mm may be an alternative to a single cable of 0.11mm

I hope this observations can help You.

Respectfully

Mário Coelho

 

Robert Sarbell
22.Mar.11
  9

Hello Mario,

Thank you so much for all of your efforts. While you disassembled your coil, I was re-winding my little  IF trap yesterday afternoon; and the length of one section was total of 102 inches (for 2.59 meters - almost the same as yours).

Then I took some time to slowly rewind the same size wires from some vintage hand-wound coils - I was using a Craftsman variable speed drill at a very slow rate to wind onto the outer section the 94 inches which were needed.

 

 

The item in the lower right corner, in the photo above, is a beeswax candle which I used to place a light coat of wax over the renewed Litz wire. And upon very enlarged views, I was able to determine that my .11mm wire was in fact 3 extremely fine strands as you precisely noted.  

The splicing of the ends (a very very tiny solder joint) was quite some feat. Then I simply placed the rewound cylinder onto the end of the ferrite rod.

The sleeve on which I rewound the new wire was cut from a very small thin vinyl hollow shaft which fit perfectly onto the little ferrite rod. And a few drops of the beeswax solved the "microsurgery".

I took several photos of the completed coil using my BK model 780 Precision LCR meter and the 3 inductance readings averaged to be 1126uH (from low 1125.4 to high of 1127.7uH.

One other point I must mention - thanks to Herr Knoll - on my model in the USA I will plan to replace the UY41 rectifier with the UY42. I have discovered (for the first time ever) the problem of "sputtering". It became quite apparent last night after nearly one hour of DXing on the SW bands.

The UY42 tube was designed for the mains voltage of 110V rms power.

There is a short article from the Philips tube makers about this "anomaly". . .

Respectfully,

Robert

PD: I would be most appreciative if any RMO member has a NOS NIB UY42 - I do know that Lorenz and Philips produced the tubes - perhaps Telefunken also.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Hits: 8326     Replies: 9
saba: SABA UA-345 (UA345);
Mario Coelho
13.Jan.05
  1 Dear Radio-Friends

I had recently upload a new model SABA UA-345. It is in my collection.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_modell.cfm?model_id=75660

         

I don't know much about it. I've not its schematic and I don't know its IF value. May be 452kc/s? It has only two IFTs, but it has a lot of RF adjustment screws. I'm not sure they are rightly tuned. It works but it can´t receive any broadcasting station. 
Do you have any information about it?

It also has one resistor in series in its mains dropper circuit. It has a very high value 10KOhms. That seems to be a thermistor. Do you think possible  it is an original component in the years of 40/50 or it is a "recent inovation"?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Best Regards
Mário


EE: I have put an empty line between the two pictures. Now the frame should not anymore "explode".
Hans M. Knoll
14.Jan.05
  2  

Hallo Mario,  let as make a new Job. 

General to your set.

This model  (UA345)  is one of the type: "Export model"

Designed   to exporting to countries Worldwide,  but not USA, Canada and Scandinavia.

These universal Types for AC and DC (GW)  models i mean, is much more specified for customers with DC, or sometime AC,  then the power consumption of this versions are higher as the AC (W) models.  The whole German industries make such export sets.

It is very difficult to becomes a information for this Types.  Our Friend and Member,  Robert Sarbell , have the same Problems (Blaupunkt, Nordmende)  

Why? 
It was not usual to serve such sets in Germany. This is the reason why we cannot find something.  Only an employee of SABA can have this one.  I have never heard some name or address from anybody.  
On other hand, some servicemen in that countries, that sales this Radios, is the only address for that.  
I have maybe, the most SABA Service -Information's  for Germany.   But not one for export.

I give my suggestion: 
Look here: SABA Triberg GW52  http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_modell.cfm?model_id=20017

I think this is the nearest Design to your Sample. Only Wave Ranges (L,M,K) is changed in K,K,M.  Only UK use Long Wave in the Export Market.  Also the Tubes UBC41 and UL41 is combine to an UCL81.  This Tube is not on market,  previous to 1951

On RM.org you can see on Pos2 the alignment plan. I have seen, the IF Frequency is 472 Khz. All SABA sets in 1951 to 1953 use this value.  I think also yours.

It also has one resistor in series in its mains dropper circuit. It has a very high value 10KOhms. That seems to be a thermistor. Do you think possible  it is an original component in the years of 40/50 or it is a "recent inovation

Yes,  this is a thermistor. 

In Old Germany : URDOX 

See here:

Picture 1

The type : U2410 says, if worm, 24 Volt trop  on 0,1 Amp. and cold if new,  aprox 2000 to 2500 Ohms  After 50 Year, much more.

The worm uptime if new: 100 sec.
This component  is necessary,  to avoid burnout of Pilot-lamp  18V/0,1A  when Set goes "on"  Without this, lamp is immediately dead! The low resistance of the cold tube -heater destroy that Lamp.

That' s first,

Awaiting your comment.

Hans M. Knoll

 

Mario Coelho
14.Jan.05
  3  

Hallo Herr Hans Knoll

I think your reply couldn't be more substantial and complete than it was.

Thank you very much for your reply and your time (patience), once more. (:-.

It is good to know that:

-IFT's frequency is 472 kHz

-It is a thermistor (URDOX) and it  is original.


I've look now at SABA Triberg GW52 schematic, as you said.

Now, I think the next step is to generate 472 kHz on  UAF42 grid and on UCL81 grid, to check the two IFT's. Do you agree?

I'll do it next Monday because I've to leave Lisbon this week-end to carry home my oscillator.

I hope you don't mind I send you my next report only next Monday.

Meanwhile I send you a photograph of those two IFT's (1) :

(1) IFT's

and a curiosity:

(2) UCL81 is inside of one B8A socket band, though its base is a correct B9A socket. Strange . Isn't it?



Best regards
Mário

Hans M. Knoll
15.Jan.05
  4 Hello Mario,

thanks for your comment.

Til monday i give you more and additional informations.

Have a nice weekend.

Hans

Hans M. Knoll
15.Jan.05
  5

Hello Mario,

after receive your picture from the IFT, (thanks) I see that the appearance is a new designed type .  This was in 1952 to 1953 used in the FM build in Super SABA UKW-SIII. This form is never used on SABA Sets , only in your Export model.  That means,  I think, the UA-345 is after or in 1952 produced. All other  Standard Models, use cylindrical Shields for the IFT's.  Later (1956) SABA  detach this  round form and use new rectangle  (AM/FM) IFT's.

here picture1

You:

I think the next step is to generate 472 kHz on  UAF42 grid

Yes that right.   and on UCH42 not on  UCL81 grid, to check the two IFT's.

Do you agree?  No, not at all. See alternations above

Right is: Signal injection first on UAF42 and second on UCH42 to test the stages for function.

And:  For final alignment please use this  modified  procedure

(from Sabine  1956)  Only the indexes  for "L" are wrong

here picture2

for the moment in "German"  Details on request.

This 0.1uF condenser, is connected to the AGC Line

(Regelspannung = AGC Line)

 

Shielding around the UCL81.

I now this solution.   This is a good thing. Some Design use that before the Noval Socket have a shield.    The Triode at E/UCL xyz mostly needs this shielding.  Particular on PC-boards,  to prevent hum and oscillation.   

 
O.K. that's enough for the moment, test it and post your comment

Regards,   Hans

 

Version 1

Mario Coelho
17.Jan.05
  6 Hallo Herr Hans Knoll

Thank you for your reply.

I had just generate 472 kHz. The response signal is weaker than usual on all points.
It was tested on:
- UAF42    pin 6 OK ------ weak.
- UCH42   better on pin 4 than on pin 6 ------ but weak.

I think it's better not to ajust the trimmers, they are so many (:- (see photo) before a I get a better signal. Do you agree? It will not be a very easy task , I presume.




Meanwile I changed the UCH42 by another one.Then I could ear a very very weak broadcast signal at the botton of the scale.

I had already tested all tubes before I'd started this job. But my tube tester, as some others, can not check all tube parameters.

Well I think I can't go forward before I buy some new tubes. Do you agree?

Best regards

Mário
Hans M. Knoll
17.Jan.05
  7 Hello Mario,

i unterstand all!

I will give you answer today evening.
Maybe jou  nowing what outgoing Voltage your SG have. When no, is also O.K.

Greadings Hans

Hans M. Knoll
17.Jan.05
  8

Hello Mario,
Your results about  sensitivity are not so good.  
Let as find a way to repair this  failure.

First: I think that you on a better way, when you test  in every situation, to measure  all values of voltage  around the tubes.  I make that all the time and be much happy to due that. Aprox. 70 % failure, is dropout of the correct  Voltage on Tubes.  I give you here a handmade circuit where you can find those Points.  (PDF on attachment)

The circuit around screens (g2) maybe different from TRIBERG. I show two versions. One with  interconnected screen between UCH and UAF and one with separate sources.  But one is forcible, the UCH must have a bleeder (divider) , UAF not!

After we have find the reason for the low gain, its to test if the Oscillator works.  UT and - Ug1 is for this case. To prevent "Osc."  stops  while measuring , a resistor ( 10 to 200 Kohm) is inline to Voltmeter test tip.

here Picture 1

Testing of IF -gain : 
Put an AC Voltmeter that can shows 0,5 Volt AC on Speaker lower side. (5 Ohms) 

SG  with 30% mod. on IF1,   Standard is 1mVolt to 3mVolt If signal for 0,5 V on Spkr. 
SG on IF2 on MW Range ( not SW)  1/ 50 to 1/100 = 2 to 1 % from the IF1 value is O.K. ?  Gain of UCH is 50 to 100 !

Please dont adjust Trimmers!

So, I hope you have to do. Awaiting jour results. 
Hans 

PS: way to you not use "Hans"?  I have a  far friend in Sweden , they say to me:  not second name is usual in "S"  Government give this order there.

Attachments

Mario Coelho
18.Jan.05
  9
Hallo Herr Hans


Thank you for your hand made circuit. It is very clear and pedagogic.

It made clear to me that I did not test right enough the circuits , before.
Your diagnosis was right. Once more! Congratulations Mr. Hans.

I Began by the beginning and suddenly the failure was found in the first capacitor you had indicated in your picture:
 
pin 5 of the UCH42 --- It is a 100nF - 250V which presents a enormous leakage (100 Ohm).

My excuse:That capacitor had to be desolder to find out the failure...(difficult of acess).

After its replacement:
It sounds now perfectly. Many thanks to You again.


1- Damaged capacitor  2 - UCH42 Pin 5



Best regards
Mário
Hans M. Knoll
18.Jan.05
  10

Hello Mario,

i see, this here: but it can´t receive any broadcasting station.

is not longer your problem.

Please take notice, test always the Voltage around the Tubes.

Mostly you are successful.


O.K. and good luck,

from Hans

 
SABA; Villingen: UA-345
End of forum contributions about this model

  
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